Tuesday, June 11, 2019

Is Liverpool the most successful English team?

My answer on Quora.
This is definitely a two horse race. Liverpool v Manchester United. I am calling it a tie. Let us look into this.
Point to consider - I am a die-hard Liverpool fan. However I will try to be as objective in this particular analysis as possible.
League Titles - Manchester United has 20 titles compared to Liverpool’s 18. Arsenal are third with 13. United have also been runners-up 16 times compared to Liverpool’s 14. Advantage: Manchester United.
FA Cups - Arsenal with 13 titles are the most successful English team in this competition. Manchester United have 12 titles. Liverpool were late starters to the FA Cup (winning their first title here in 1965) but have a total of 7 titles to their name. Spurs and Chelsea both have eight. Arsenal and United have been runners-up seven and eight times respectively while Liverpool have lost seven finals. Advantage: Manchester United.
League Cups - Liverpool dominate here with eight titles and four runners-up spots. Included in this is four League Cup wins in a row (1981–84). United have won the League Cup five times and have lost four finals. Manchester City has six league cups to their name, placing them in second position. Advantage: Liverpool
European Champions League (formerly European Cup) - Liverpool has won Europe’s Premier tournament six times placing them third overall behind Real Madrid (13) and AC Milan (7). Liverpool also won back-to-back titles in 1977 and 1978. Manchester United have three Champion’s Leagues to their name with Nottingham Forest ranking third with two titles( for English clubs in this category). In terms of final runners-up Liverpool have earned this accolade three times compared to United’s twice. Advantage: Liverpool
Manchester United during happier times Source: Mail online.
UEFA Cup/Europa League - Liverpool have won the UEFA Cup (now the Europa League) three times making them the most successful English team in this competition as well. They have been runners-up once. In terms of trophy haul here they are tied in second place with Inter Milan, Juventus and Atletico Madrid. Seville of Spain leads this category with five titles. Chelsea and Tottenham have each won two titles while United has one. Advantage: Liverpool
European Cup Winners Cup - This tournament was originally contested by the winners of the various Domestic cup competitions. It is now defunct. Barcelona won the cup a record four times. Chelsea were the most successful English team with two titles. Manchester United won it once. Liverpool were unsuccessful here although they were a runner-up once in the 60s. Advantage: Manchester United
World Club Championship/intercontinental Cup- This was at one time a one-off game between the winners of the European Cup and South America’s Copa Libertadores (usually played in Tokyo). It evolved into a mini round-robin with other regional champions at one point (which very few people liked) and is on the verge of becoming an even larger tournament (which even more people are unhappy with). Credit United with two wins (one under the banner of the Intercontinental Cup). Liverpool are without a win. Advantage: Manchester United.
UEFA Super Cup - This is a single game (played in Monaco) between the winners of the Champions League and the Europa Cup (in earlier times it was the Cup-Winners Cup). Liverpool have won it three times compared to United’s once. Advantage: Liverpool
Community/Charity Shield - This match serves as the curtain raiser to the new season and features the winner of the League against the FA Cup champion from the previous season. Manchester United have won the shield 21 compared to Liverpool’s 15 (they are tied for second spot with Arsenal). Advantage: Manchester United
In the final analysis I will not include lower division titles. United have two old second division titles. Liverpool have four plus a Lancashire League.
Awarding Points according to the following system. Champions League - 8, League - 6, UEFA Cup/Europa League/Cup Winners Cup - 5, FA Cup - 4, League Cup -3, All other competitions - 1.
Remember not all silverware is equivalent.
The final result is…..
Liverpool - 241 Points. Manchester United - 241 Points.
A Tie and believe me I didn’t rig this one.
For comparison I calculated the score values for the other teams in the Big Six. They are Arsenal (146), Chelsea (117), Man City (83) and Tottenham Hotspurs (71).
Here are some tie breakers for the top two.
League/FA Cup Doubles - United 3 Liverpool 1
League/League Cup Doubles - Liverpool 3 (all in a row) United 1
League/European Cup - Liverpool 2 United 2
League/UEFA Cup - Liverpool 2 United 0
Trebles (not including one-off competition matches) - Liverpool 2 (1984, 2001) United 1 (1999)
So take your pick or flip a coin.
For those who want to go deeper there is always this. Premier League + 1. Division - All-time league table. Liverpool come out on top.

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